Posts by gone for good

80

Quit Quietly now more than ever

by gone for good in

the amazing exoneration of info sekta in swiss court has finally reinforced the proper way to exit an abusive cult.. never write a letter of disassociation.

- no need to invoke shepherding or judicial action from elders.

make a written, dated statement of your free-will choice to have abandoned the jw religion - secure this document with a friend -a trusted friend (not the jw kind).

gone for good

Phizzy -

I'm so delighted to see you make the connection that your letter IS your exercise of a human right.

Sign, dated, witnessed, and specifying explicitly the actions of violations you will no longer tolerate - I think you have a very substantial legal document to stop congregational persecution dead in its tracks.

Phizzy, you raised an amazing congruent point in your last paragraph ! - thank you so much for it..

The unstoppable knock on effect within the congregation!

Most (I would assert ALL) of the shunning is not really voluntary reaction by individuals but rather is the result of the industrial level coercion from the ecclesiastical chain overhead -bullying to be blunt.

To have legally shed the cult status of "Brother" without ecclesiastic censure will certainly not go unnoticed inside the congregation.

When your loved ones (and true friends) realize that they can now "scripturally" associate freely with you - they will soon appreciate exactly how great a freedom you achieved with a simple well-timed, well-written letter.

If the elders attempt to harass your associates their first and obvious realization will be "....I need to write a letter also - just like Phizzys'" Then their friends get freedom-envy and they think "... I need to write a letter" etc. etc,

As for me and my household, we can almost hear the Watchtower splitting to pieces.

80

Quit Quietly now more than ever

by gone for good in

the amazing exoneration of info sekta in swiss court has finally reinforced the proper way to exit an abusive cult.. never write a letter of disassociation.

- no need to invoke shepherding or judicial action from elders.

make a written, dated statement of your free-will choice to have abandoned the jw religion - secure this document with a friend -a trusted friend (not the jw kind).

gone for good

Phizzy -

THE LETTER IS YOUR CLAIM TO FREEDOM OF RELIGION !!

Once the letter is finished you are free because you claimed your freedom in the letter !

No more ecclesiastic authority can be brought to bear as you are no longer a member- you have claimed your freedom in writing and superseded their authority with your own.

Democracies guarantee human rights to all from your first breath - you didn't have to claim it like you did a license, you always had it - it's written in stone.

Separation of church and state means that freedom is the norm and only willing submission of membership in cults can suspend it. sSince membership is voluntary - the state need not interfere in ecclesistical affairs to restore a persons freedom - they do it themselves by simply ending the membership and claiming the freedom as their own

We willingly suspended our human rights by becoming members of a religion whose doctrine and discipline involves intimidating members from ever leaving and punishing members who have or are about to leave.

Can you imagine on what grounds a church could possibly disregard your claim to freedom of religion??Apostasy?? There are no laws on apostasy in democracies - . to abandon or change is a right not a crime.

On what grounds could they possibly dispute the fact that their own authority over you has been rescinded in writing? The courts do not and cannot force ecclesiastic authority upon those who have rescinded membership and the authority of the church - to enforce ecclesiastic law would itself be a violation of religious freedoms committed by the court itself !

It's all about membership -restarting your secular freedoms by ending the cult membership.

Timing is paramount -preempt and repudiate ecclesiastical interference in strong terms '

The threats will never need to be acted on because there are simply no grounds whatsoever upon which they can contest your actions.in a court.

Ain't nobody goin' to court with this plan - ever.

80

Quit Quietly now more than ever

by gone for good in

the amazing exoneration of info sekta in swiss court has finally reinforced the proper way to exit an abusive cult.. never write a letter of disassociation.

- no need to invoke shepherding or judicial action from elders.

make a written, dated statement of your free-will choice to have abandoned the jw religion - secure this document with a friend -a trusted friend (not the jw kind).

gone for good

Earrnest and Phizzy -

You both are horribly confused !

The ONLY issue for leavers is - "How do I regain my freedom of religion from this abusive nasty cult?"

All democratic governments (state/provincial and federal) guarantee freedom of religion to their citizens.

The government and courts don't know which citizens are wanting their freedom back from a nasty abusive cult, and which citizens are enjoying the graceful company and charitable works of a happy, loving church.

Here how they find out who needs the help of the courts-

Individuals exercise the guaranteed right to freedom by simply declaring themselves to be free - by actions and deliberate words.

Churches who respect universal human rights may well react in a dignified, nonthreatening, even kind manner, wishing the leaver well on their continuing spiritual journey. Few, if any, friendships might be lostbut certainly not your loved ones and true friends.

Then there are Jehovahs Witnesses - who consider the pursuit of religious freedom as a crime (Apostasy) and use their own invented doctrines to scourge the freedom seeker, by labeling him as an apostate and coercing the entire congregation (including the seekers family an and loved ones to ostracise and shame him.

Remember - this is Jehovahs Witnesses reaction to someone who seeks to claim a human right guaranteed by their democratic governments.

It is illegal to interfere with or coerce someone who wishes to or has exercised a legal right, the coercion, interference are no different than the actual denying of that right. . Read this sentence again

Ms. Spiess made clear that JWs violate human rights law with such interference and coercion. The ecclesiastic heights know this as they are the ones who fabricated their doctrines to dissuade, even scare JWS from ever seeking to be free.

WT/JW never mention that religious freedom is available to be claimed by EVERYONE INDIVIDUALLY not just churches and organizations

Freedom of religious legislation grants churches the freedom to concoct, twist and teach any hateful, dishonest, manipulative doctrines they can spew, but they simply cannot violate the rights of persons who claim their right to be free of those same doctrines

Earnest -

Defamation has nothing whatsoever to do with the issue of how to exercise our right to religious freedom.

It was simply the charge with which Watchtower hoped to intimidate and silence Ms. Spiess. It blew up right in their lying faces,

80

Quit Quietly now more than ever

by gone for good in

the amazing exoneration of info sekta in swiss court has finally reinforced the proper way to exit an abusive cult.. never write a letter of disassociation.

- no need to invoke shepherding or judicial action from elders.

make a written, dated statement of your free-will choice to have abandoned the jw religion - secure this document with a friend -a trusted friend (not the jw kind).

gone for good

TD -

Reply (and apology) coming tonight.

80

Quit Quietly now more than ever

by gone for good in

the amazing exoneration of info sekta in swiss court has finally reinforced the proper way to exit an abusive cult.. never write a letter of disassociation.

- no need to invoke shepherding or judicial action from elders.

make a written, dated statement of your free-will choice to have abandoned the jw religion - secure this document with a friend -a trusted friend (not the jw kind).

gone for good

Phizzy -

We're making headway here!

Let's visualize a few progressing scenarios...

You are likely already fading or wondering how to start a fade, PIMO (Physically In Mentally Out)

You still attend regularly only for personal/family reasons -kids, grandchildren, friendships = PIMO

You have long stopped contributing financially. not engaging in any"field service", not reporting and not commenting at meetings (so no longer being addressed as Brother, Sister.)

Your letter has already been written, dated, notarized, and is instantly available.

You wrote the letter when you were in good standing, so no committees were in progress by the date you penned your letter.

Your letter contains only these two FACTS: * You have exercised your legal right to freedom of religion as per state/nation laws.

* Your intent to sue any person or group who contravenes your freedom in any way. -by henceforth collecting, storing or sharing any personal information about you - by any form of ecclesiastical actions directed at you - including but not limited to: * the public announcing of your name or your religious affiliations (or lack thereof) * any attempt to incite others to contravene your freedoms of association, speech, movement and religion as stated by law.# ( Cite the law).......

Your letter offers no reasons for your choice (unnecessary). contains no inflammatory comments (Unnecessary and unwise),.

You attend meetings to socialize with family and friends, (you are a real friend to those you love).

You are not a JW anymore but no one knows this yet - *important point for later*

You are not suffering persecution from JWs yet.

You have now claimed for yourself, the very same rights and freedoms the WT proudly boasts to have claimed for itself and its' members...

Jump in here everyone,.. let's build a bullet proof scenario

80

Quit Quietly now more than ever

by gone for good in

the amazing exoneration of info sekta in swiss court has finally reinforced the proper way to exit an abusive cult.. never write a letter of disassociation.

- no need to invoke shepherding or judicial action from elders.

make a written, dated statement of your free-will choice to have abandoned the jw religion - secure this document with a friend -a trusted friend (not the jw kind).

gone for good

Phizzy -

Thanks again for your contributions. Could you clarify your comment:

:"Just to reiterate what I Posted above, if you are threatened with Disassociation , then this move by the Congregation is NOT Ecclesiastical."

I am wondering if there is confusion about to whom the term ecclesiastical applies...? or did you mean to state (correctly) that if a person was already in the process of disfellowshipping that it would be too late?

I mentioned in a previous post your right must be exercised 'while in good standing'. O one of the more known cases (not JWs) was rejected by the court because the ecclesiastical discipline was already in process.

adjective
relating to the Christian Church or its clergy.
"the ecclesiastical hierarchy"
Similar: priestly ministerial clerical
Ecclesiastical authority is hierarchical hitting bottom with elders (in more ways than one). thus legal recognition of responsibility can go right to the top as doctrine and conduct and enforcement practies originate there.
Individual rights are not ecclesiastic in any way because they are proffered by the state for the benefit of everyone who claims them.
Ecclesiastic laws are valid only on church members unless there is a violation of state law. Honor killings, female genital mutilation (FGM) for examples. Shunning is not illegal but the extent to which individuals' rights are violated by it will soon be scrutinized at last.

80

Quit Quietly now more than ever

by gone for good in

the amazing exoneration of info sekta in swiss court has finally reinforced the proper way to exit an abusive cult.. never write a letter of disassociation.

- no need to invoke shepherding or judicial action from elders.

make a written, dated statement of your free-will choice to have abandoned the jw religion - secure this document with a friend -a trusted friend (not the jw kind).

gone for good

TD -

I have no idea what a UBM might be.

By the way (BTW) It is considered good etiquette (and good logic) to only use acronyms after having first used the full form of the phrase at the opening of the discussion.

Why claim to be dumb when you can obviously read?

In an online interview with one of Ms. Spiess' fellow activists at Info Sekta, the gentleman being interviewed describes the lady as possessing a brilliant intellect coupled with unsurpassed personal courage.

Watchtower did not attack the activist group, it attacked Ms. Spiess individually.

She could have capitulated by saying her harsh published criticisms were merely her "opinions' but she bravely defended her statements as all being truthful and thus elevated to being considered as "facts".

The court exonerated her on all issues-moving her published criticisms from mere opinions (worth nothing at trial) to legally documented facts as acceptable to a court of law.

The charge of defamation is a CRiMINAL charge in Switzerland and carries huge financial costs along with a criminal record for the person convicted - .

This lady and her fellows are modern-day heroes of justice - show respect for what they have done and educate yourself.

if you can't figure out the significance of her exoneration just wait for the flood of human rights litigation against Watchtower/JWs.

80

Quit Quietly now more than ever

by gone for good in

the amazing exoneration of info sekta in swiss court has finally reinforced the proper way to exit an abusive cult.. never write a letter of disassociation.

- no need to invoke shepherding or judicial action from elders.

make a written, dated statement of your free-will choice to have abandoned the jw religion - secure this document with a friend -a trusted friend (not the jw kind).

gone for good

Dubstepped-

In what way exactly, can timely exercising of a guaranteed civil right be considered a "loophole"?

In case law - you see that others stumbled at getting courts to care because they were still members of the religious group,when "the sh*t hit the fan" whining about something that they themselves implicitly agreed to -ecclesiastic authority of their chosen group

Timing ones' claim tof s state-guaranteed right to religious freedom, such that it pre-empts another parties ability to exercise their (former) legal right of ecclesiastic authority over members is no loophole but simply necessary legal practice if the issue wants to ever be settled in courts.

Timing is and always has been critically important in legal matters. Real estate closures have defined time lines - the violation of which may make a party legally liable, contracts of many types have integrated time frames legally enforcible. Offering a buyer more money for a product after it is already sold is just tough luck for you. Weddings offer a brief time for opposition to the contract- in- progress to be expressed - then the knot is tied. Planes ,trains, and ships are in no way liable if you are late

Religious membership is voluntary - not contractual as JWs are led to believe. There are no periods of membership enforceable by law. If a person is able to provide a date of their own emancipation the other party has no legal structure from which to challenge a free-will decision on what was always a purely voluntary endeavor.

WT/JW will never attempt to force ecclesiastic authority on non-members through secular courts.

Internally, JWs puff themselves up as the only legitimate faith in their imaginary little theocracy,

But (like every religion in every democracy), they possess no legal power beyond their own shrinking membership.

80

Quit Quietly now more than ever

by gone for good in

the amazing exoneration of info sekta in swiss court has finally reinforced the proper way to exit an abusive cult.. never write a letter of disassociation.

- no need to invoke shepherding or judicial action from elders.

make a written, dated statement of your free-will choice to have abandoned the jw religion - secure this document with a friend -a trusted friend (not the jw kind).

gone for good

Steve2 -

As always your comment is spot on - thanks for good advice.

I feel the future of the litigation surrounding this issue of religious rights is going to be so useful and important that no details should be overlooked in preparation for that possibility.

If class actions come about - easy but careful preparation now might qualify many for quick inclusion as the actions move forward.

80

Quit Quietly now more than ever

by gone for good in

the amazing exoneration of info sekta in swiss court has finally reinforced the proper way to exit an abusive cult.. never write a letter of disassociation.

- no need to invoke shepherding or judicial action from elders.

make a written, dated statement of your free-will choice to have abandoned the jw religion - secure this document with a friend -a trusted friend (not the jw kind).

gone for good

LongHairGal -

Thanks for elucidating the discomfort that many faders must feel at a kingdom hall. JWs do not really welcome visitors as they rather look to groom victims

.Glad you're out.

I've always enjoyed your insights over the years